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ParaNet File Number: 00040

DATE OF UPLOAD: November 22, 1989
ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: ParaNet Alpha
CONTRIBUTED BY: Robert B. Klinn, ParaNet Director of
Investigations/Research ========================================================
Theoretical physicist Robert Lazar and his friend, Las Vegas realtor, Gene
Huff -- in-studio guests on "Billy Goodman's Happening" live talk
show, KVEG 840-AM Radio, 10:00 p.m. 11/21/89 until 1:00 a.m.
11/22/89 -- answered questions for three hours.

These notes were compiled from 10:20 p.m., thus missing 20 minutes
(10:00 - 10:20 p.m.) of the three-hour program.

Lazar says he is tired.

1. Lazar's Purpose In Going On-Air:
Although Lazar's main stated purpose in appearing on the broadcast is to protect himself, caller Bill Cooper says one of Lazar's motives is
anger -- previously expressed privately to Cooper -- that billions of
dollars are needlessly wasted in the normal U.S. sectors by those without access to this alien technology. Lazar agrees.

Lazar says another reason for his appearing is to correct incorrect
information he had heard on previous broadcasts.

Billy Goodman says Lazar's, Bill Cooper's, and John Lear's lives are on
the line and that Lazar's best protection is the media, which is keeping
Lazar alive.

Lazar hopes "other people out there" working at S-4 will loosen up, come forward, and join with him to present their information as one, as a
group. He doesn't want to be "the lone ranger."

Congressional amnesty -- suggested by a caller -- would be nice, says
Lazar, but merely offers freedom from prosecution. By coming forward,
he concedes, the other S-4 workers have everything to lose and nothing
to gain.

But Huff says there has to be a moral guideline where national security
has to hang in the balance and that the reporting of the existence of
alien spaceships is where you draw the line.

Caller Bill Cooper says there is "a higher value" that those at S-4
should consider as a reason for coming forward to join Lazar.

But Lazar makes a point of distinguishing his whole view of the UFO
situation from that of John Lear or Bill Cooper.

2. Verification of Lazar's Background:
Lazar says he worked at S-4 -- a "restrained military environment"
in Nevada -- from 12/88 to 4/89.

In response to callers who want independently to check up on Lazar,
he says his "colorful" background has already been checked by George
Knapp of KLAS-TV, who had traveled to Los Alamos Laboratories and
had spoken to former Lazar colleagues, who confirmed he really had
worked there -- in spite of Los Alamos itself denying the fact of
Lazar's employment with them. (Knapp's UFO broadcast displayed a
page from a 1982 Los Alamos Labs internal phone book, listing Robert
Lazar.)

Caller Bill Cooper, who says he has talked to Lazar for over a year,
says that by talking to persons at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and at
another facility, he and associates have confirmed Lazar's previous
work in physics at the places Lazar specified. Lazar replied he was not
aware of this checking done by Cooper.

Responding to an "investigator" caller wanting Lazar to give him private
info in order to check him out, Lazar says Lazar himself once took a correspondence course to be a private "investigator."

Lazar says he has 25 people each wanting independently to check him out,
but he will not allow that.

Although Lazar admits he was paid by check, he refuses to discuss anything about the check stubs.

3. Lazar's Clearance Level:
He says neither REECO (Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Co., Inc.) nor
EG&G -- each a well-known U.S. Department of Energy Test Site
contractor -- has people at S-4, that those persons' clearances are at
most Q-Clearances, while his own clearance is "38 levels above Q-Clearance." The closest to S-4 that REECO or EG&G people physically get, he says,
is Area 51.

4. Threats Made to Lazar/Lazar Shot At?
When Goodman refers to Lazar's telling him before the broadcast that
Lazar had been shot at, Lazar says he doesn't want to talk about it.

Lazar says he was called to go back to work but officially refused
because he didn't like the idea of returning to that isolated place
in the desert where they could do what they wanted to him.
However, he says his clearance has not been revoked.

Lazar says the executive powers at S-4 have run amok and there are no
checks and balances. Congress, he says, has no knowledge of all this.
Lazar says there are no lengths to which the military will not go to
conceal this information.

5. Mind Control Suspicions:
He contacted hypnotherapist Layne Keck of Serenus Clinical Hypnosis in
Las Vegas because there were a couple of days where Lazar remembered
only going out in a plane and coming back, but nothing in between.
He suspected mind control had been performed on him.

Lazar purposely selected Serenus because it had nothing to do with UFOs.
[A Las Vegas Yellow Pages ad says:
Serenus Clinical Hypnosis
Helen Baucum
30 years Experience
"Pin-Point" Method
Children Our Specialty
Weight Control, Stuttering, Bed Wetting, Nervous Tensions, Smoking,
Drinking, Memory Retention
384-4420
1833 W. Charleston (across from S. Nevada Memorial Hosp.)]

Under hypnosis, Lazar recalled intense drilling, threatening actions
taken against him, and his drinking of "pine," which his hypnotherapist
said was similar to the "Orion [sp?] Method" of regimented hypnosis used
by the military.

Per Huff, Lazar was given drugs and hypnosis by his employers -- not so
he would forget what he was working on, but so -- by their imprinting
his subconscious -- he would be afraid to talk.

Per Huff, after first telling Lazar his phone was tapped, the military
later threatened him because, having monitored his phone, they knew he
was planning to release information about the alien craft. Huff says
the military were amazed that the drugs and hypnosis had not worked.

Although he is afraid, Lazar hopes they won't come after him now since he
has already talked.

6. Location of the Saucers:
Lazar says the nine saucers are not at the supersecret Area 51
(Groom Lake) of the U.S. government's Nevada Test Site, but at S-4 --
10 miles south of Area 51. The disks are only at this one place.
However, to go to work, Lazar flew (by plane) to Groom Lake, waited a
short time at a cafe, then got on a bus [with blacked-out windows,
per Lazar's Knapp-series statements].

Lazar says he knows someone who drills tunnels at the Test Site, but
no mention is made that this individual also works at S-4.

7. Bad Aliens Killed S-4 Workers:
Lazar says the aliens are not benevolent.

Some humans were killed in a conflict after a U.S. military
intelligence power play, after which point a previously ongoing
information exchange ended.

Huff says Lazar earlier told him -- and Lazar agrees he had said this --
that this exchange of information occurred between the aliens and
human scientists/human security personnel [at S-4?].

But although the aliens had allowed themselves to be under constant
human guard, the aliens had insisted there be no bullets in the guns
worn by the security people. [Bullets may have been a symbol covering
all loaded weapons.]

The security people ignored that demand, and they all died from head
wounds -- which left no evidence of how they had died.

The aliens even killed the scientists they were teaching.

[On Knapp's broadcast last week, Lazar said he was told he was one of
the replacements:
George Knapp:
The dangers associated with 115 [the alien element] and anti-matter may
be the reason Lazar was hired to work at S-4. There was an accident,
he says, back in April 1987, an accident that was passed off as an
unannounced nuclear test.

Robert Lazar:
Some people got killed. I was told flat out I was one of the people
that were to replace these guys.]

Responding to a caller, Lazar says talking about aliens is NOT a touchy
subject for him. Aliens exist, he says.
[Lear, in an earlier On the Record KLAS-TV broadcast, says Lazar saw
aliens.]

8. Time of Saucer Test Flights:
The tests of the saucers at S-4 are Wednesday nights.
Lazar says he was fired because he showed people where and when these
tests were performed.

9. Who Pilots the Test Flights?
Lazar says the experimental UFO flights at S-4 are flown either by
remote control or by human pilots -- not by the aliens.

10. Origin of the Saucers at S-4:
The alien vehicles Lazar saw up close in hangars come from
"another world: "the fourth planet out from Zeta Reticulum II [sp?],
a binary system." [Same as on Betty Hill's map?]

11. Description of the Saucers:
He says he touched one of the nine UFOs and even stood in its doorway.

He says the saucers mostly appeared "like new" -- one of them looking
like the Billy Meier saucer.
[On George Knapp's recent series "UFOs: The Best Evidence" (KLAS-TV,
Las Vegas), Lazar says one of the saucers "looked like it was hit
with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the bottom and
a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like some sort of,
you know, large caliber 4- or 5-inch had gone through it."]

The inside of one craft appears made of wax and then cooled off,
all like a cast or mold of one thing with no rough edges.

Inside were small chairs, one or one and one-half feet, as though
made for little kids.
(Compare with George Knapp's new Roswell witness who said on Knapp's nine-segment broadcast that a Roswell funeral home worker had told him
the military had purchased all of the "baby or youth caskets" in stock
for the purpose of holding the Roswell aliens.)

12. Nine S-4 Saucers Extraterrestrial -- Not Earthly:
The nine disks he saw up close -- including the one he worked on --
were not earthly and were definitely extraterrestrial.

Lazar can't say whether or not the other disks he saw at a distance
during testing [seen on video presented in George Knapp's broadcasts]
are man-made or extraterrestrial.

13. Physics of the Saucers at S-4:
Lazar says the vehicle attaches itself to a distorted portion of
space-time and returns with the distortion. It's a new physics.
The vehicles brought a space-time warp with them.

Lazar says the propulsion technology should properly remain
classified, since everything there is looked at from a weapons
point of view. A lot is directly applicable to weapons systems, and he
has no intention of releasing it, he says.

But he says the craft uses gravity as a lens and the power source is
an anti-matter reactor.

Two Modes of Travel for Saucers at S-4:
1) When traveling around the surface of the planet, the vehicles balance
on a gravity wave or ride a wave like a cork on the ocean. In this
mode they are unstable and are affected by the weather.

2) For space travel, they use gravity generators. But if they fly
around the surface of Earth using this mode, they may flip over, a
phenomenon Lazar says has frequently been observed in past sightings
in the published UFO literature.

Two gravities: A & B.
Gravity A works on an atomic scale whose interaction is small and has
to do with fuel -- the alien Element 115 used for the disks.

Gravity B works on a macro scale.

The gravitational field is OUT OF PHASE with [unknown ?] and is like
a wave generator. It is LONGITUDINAL generation -- not spherical, as
a caller suggested.

14. Project Aurora:
"Aurora," says Lazar, distinguishing it from any UFOs, is the
replacement for the SR-71 plane. It uses a three-mile runway and
makes a sound like continuous explosions. It has speeds up to Mach 10.

15. No Alien Cattle Mutilations?
As far as HE knows, Lazar says, there is no alien UFO tie-in with
cattle mutilations.

16. Few Abductees?
More persons claim to be abductees than have actually been abducted,
suggests Lazar.

17. No Blue Diamond Entry Way for Saucers:
Notwithstanding UFO watchers congregating at Blue Diamond, Lazar says
there is only a gravity anomaly around Blue Diamond, not an entry way
for saucers into our universe.

18. Other Physics Comments By Lazar:
Time travel:
GRAVITY affects time. Moving FORWARD in time is "a breeze": All you
need do is get close to a gravitational field.
Moving back in time MIGHT also be possible.

Some physicists today, says Lazar, invoke superstring theories to simply
add another dimension to the universe whenever they can't explain something.

Referring to laser fusion experiments as "stupid," Lazar refers to a
location where they have been conducted.

Lazar also speaks of a process of squeezing plutonium.

In response to a caller's question, Lazar says M-42 is a galaxy.

19. Lazar says George Knapp's two-hour program on KLAS-TV,
Channel 8 in Las Vegas, this Saturday, 11/25/89, 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.,
will contain "much more information" than Knapp's recent nine-part,
two-hour UFO broadcasts last week.

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